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Talk:List of retcons and inconsistencies in Metroid
AU 242 as the next Mother Brain To clarify that AU 242 was going to be Mother Brain, or that it was hinted may be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKwML6FOP0M You will notice that at the top right where it shows a side view of Tourian, there is Mother Brain, who is supposedly AU 242. At the top left you will see "A 242." As for Kraid, it was because of time constraints that he did not appear in Metroid Prime. There is no unexplained reason for his absence. Please read here. Metroid Fan 04:36, November 27, 2010 (UTC) The article talks as if that was DEFINITELY the suggested idea/theory (that AU 242 becomes the future Mother Brain). Nothing confirms that the AU in the jar located on the blueprints is 242. The code written as "A 242" could easily mean that AU 242 designed the blueprints. That AU trailer's main role was to simply give the idea that Mother Brain was an Aurora Unit all along. Also, remember that these blueprints are of Galactic Federation origin and not of Space Pirate origin. If it was the latter, than the theory that 242 becomes the new Mother Brain would make sense. Why would the Federation install an AU on Zebes, a deserted Pirate territory? They are only installed on secured offices, ships, Federation controlled planets with sentient life (as told in scans of Elysia and Norion). Many people believe different meanings behind those blueprints. However, I suggested avoiding putting theories in there as much as possible and keeping it neutral. I will attempt to rewrite several portions of this article and see what you guys think about it. I hope I don't upset anyone with the changes, but I would like to keep discussing on the changes needed in the article. P.S, because the blueprints only has A 242 instead of AU 242, it makes me think it doesnt stand for Aurora Unit 242, but something else. Perhaps Archives 242? ( 09:01, November 27, 2010 (UTC)) I was of the opinion that many people thought that AU 242 would become the next Mother Brain. I also understood "A 242" as AU 242 because there is nothing else to ascribe 242 to. As for AU 242 designing these blueprints, which look awfully like Tourian, is peculiar. However, I do like the idea that you have presented, that the trailer was meant to give us the idea that Mother Brain was an AU all along. As for those blueprints being Federation blueprints, how are we to determine this to be true? Metroid Fan 16:51, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Well, whenever Aurora Unit 242 is narrating a trailer, they always show footage and data from the Federation's perspective (example: PED trailer shows Marines killing Berserker Lord, shows schematics on how its connected to the Marine, etc). The AU trailer talks how Federation scientists built them, all the while showing an authentic AU and then the blueprints. It'd be weird for them to suddenly show the Pirates' perspective and reveal blueprints made by the marauding race while talking about the Federation. Also, there's 1 single trailer that details events from the Pirates' side, and their trailer is colored crimson red with alien writings, while the Federation trailers are blue and in english. In my honest opinion, I don't think Retro really wanted to explicitely say that Mother Brain was simply an AU. I know that Retro has created some tiny inconsistencies towards the main classic series, but going so far as to saying this is Mother Brain's true nature, she's simply a computer built by the Federation, and that's that, is in my opinion, suicidal. Suicidal in the sense that by stating this, they'd be SERIOUSLY contradicting a very important subject, which would result in Prime being thrown out of the Metroid timeline and considered non-canon. I don't think Retro wants that. My idea is that Retro wanted to expand on the concept that: *Federation likes to reverse engineer Chozo technology, as seen in Fusion. So they would go so far as to make their own "Mother Brain" in the form of AUs. *The manga states that Mother Brain is connected to the Federation databanks. How EXACTLY is unknown, but it wouldn't be farfetched to believe that Mother Brain was connected to the Federations' Aurora Units, which contain said databanks. Thus, the AU trailer's purpose was to show a connection between Mother Brain and AUs. What exactly is that connection? Like any Metroid game, the information given is vague and it's up to the fans to connect the dots or think up theories. And don't worry, I'm not planning on adding ANY of this to the article itself, its way too speculative I think. P.S. A 242 standing for Archives 242 is actually reasonable. AU 242, who is narrating the trailer, might be accessing her archives stored inside her to reveal the blueprints.( 21:35, November 27, 2010 (UTC)) Samus' First Joint Mission "It was the first joint mission I had been a part of since becoming a freelance bounty hunter. And of course, it was the first time since my Federation days that I was following the orders of a commanding officer." (Samus Aran after Adam's briefing) Before Metroid: Other M, if we were to take the Metroid Prime trilogy as canon, Samus did a joint mission with the Galactic Federation Marines under the order of Admiral Dane. But even then, Samus was a bounty hunter when she went to planet Zebes, wasn't she? Metroid Fan 17:16, November 27, 2010 (UTC) That's right. --[[User:RoyboyX|''R''oy''b''oy'']][[User talk:RoyboyX|''X]] 19:23, November 27, 2010 (UTC) I don't think this article is necessary. A lot of these "retcons" or Inconsistencies are debatable. For example, the one in metroid about the high jump boots; whose to say they aren't a different pair, just updated rather than "retconned". This could still be in universe, no one can say. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|''Hell''Kaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 20:09, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Different pair or not, the contradiction is there. Aside from that, there is really no reason to think that they are different pairs since there is no evidence that they are different. You may notice that after Metroid II: Return of Samus, the Hi-Jump Boots are never given an exact distance Samus can jump. By the way, retconning and updating are similar. Both have alteration, addition, or subtraction. A policy, for example, can be altered, have things added or subtracted to them. We would never said that we are retconning a policy, though. We would say that we are updating it. Metroid Fan 21:36, November 27, 2010 (UTC) :I disagree, we are talking about a fictional reality here. The word retcon means that the new update is definitive, almost as if the previous one never happened and was wrong. Retconning is oou. Updating is inside the Metroid universe, so they are two different things that do not mean the same thing. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|''Hell''Kaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 21:42, November 27, 2010 (UTC) : :About the First joint mission by Samus, what exactly does that mean? Does she mean simply working alongside the Federation? Cause Samus had definitely followed orders from the Federation in Zero Mission and Metroid 2 (not Super Metroid, she went ahead on her own without making a contract for that one). (Latinlingo 22:39, November 27, 2010 (UTC)) : :Fictional reality? That's an oxymoron. Anyway, not every retcon says that something that happened before, but has now been retconned never happened. That only works for either altering or subtracting, but not for addition. An example of adding would be Samus' Speed Booster. In Super Metroid it tells us that the Speed Booster allows Samus to run at super high speed, but information was added to tell us how fast this super high speed really is. Zero Mission and Fusion tell us Samus can run at supersonic speeds. :As for updating inside the Metroid universe, what are you talking about? The director or author is the one who is responsible for what goes on in the Metroid universe. So still, retconning and updating aren't really far apart in meaning. Metroid Fan 00:06, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Metroid Fusion It is a widely-spread fan concept that there was a Metroid on the Leviathan or something along those lines, but it is not canon. This is what I meant when I wrote that the text was inventing inconsistencies. The Metroid likely came from the batch brought by the pirates.ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 01:51, June 6, 2012 (UTC) Why wouldn't it be? Sylux X 19:07, June 6, 2012 (UTC) Pirates showed up on Tallon IV years after the Leviathan was already isolated, closed up with the Chozo's temple shield. The Metroid that became Metroid Prime could not have been a Metroid brought there by Space Pirates. In the original lore, Pirates captured the creature early on, meaning it is unlikely to be a Metroid that was brought with them. In the other version of Prime lore (which is now canon), it says they cannot breach the shield, but they detect a massive creature living in the crater (Metroid Prime). This creates the whole confusion/inconsistancy of when Metroids were created, since the only way for a Metroid to have reached the Impact Crater is either: a) The most commonly believed (yet flawed) theory is that Metroid Prime came from Phaaze with the Leviathan many years ago. b) There was a Metroid among the Chozo on Tallon IV and after the Leviathan impacted, it went inside to become the Metroid Prime. The only problem with this theory is that there is no Chozo lore that mentions them having a Metroid with them, both in the original and canon version of the game. Thus why this creates an inconsistancy of when were Metroids created. However, this inconsistancy might need to be moved elsewhere instead of remaining in the fusion section. And some rewording.Latinlingo 22:36, June 6, 2012 (UTC) Everything.... is now clear. Now, tell me... HOW DID DARK SAMUS SURVIVE A FALL FROM THE AERIE? Seriously, the highest room in an area with an incredible altitude ABOVE A CITY and Dark Samus was facing death and jumped out. She was practically dead! She's kinda like Vegeta, speaking in survival terms. Sylux X 00:13, June 7, 2012 (UTC) Well, if she can survive being exploded, getting overloaded with Phazon, and having the living daylights shot out of her, I'm sure she can survive a measly fall. Plus, she's got Samus's DNA, and that girl can fall a ridiculous height and walk off like it's normal. --''The Exterminator'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 00:21, June 7, 2012 (UTC) True. It's always amazed me... apparently it's now some kind of trend for doppelgangers to survive everything. Shadow the Hedgehog survived a fall from the moon, Vegeta, well... lets not go through the crap he's been through. Black Shadow... (from F-Zero) I'm not entirely sure. But if you look around at doppelgangers (like almost every Nintendo character has one, except maybe Kirby or Ness) has some kind of super survival skill. It almost appears cliche. Sylux X 00:50, June 7, 2012 (UTC) :Chozo, it is impossible for the Pirates to have brought it. It had to have been sealed in the force field before the Pirates arrived. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 01:22, June 7, 2012 (UTC) ::It makes more sense that a Metroid got in than a Metroid being on the Leviathan somehow, even without the manga story. Corruption demonstrated that Phazon exposure could create the conditions for abilities such as those held by the Phazon Metroid "allowing it to ignore solid matter." Maybe the Metroids got in with their energy-syphoning abilities? (Either from the force-field or the bio-statues.) I'm not going to posit any definitive solutions, but the Metroid-from-Phaaze idea is wacky. Beyond that, there is virtually no excuse for a Metroid to be on Tallon IV when their purpose is on SR-388. Ultimately, if we don't know then we can't call it an retcon/inconsitancy with the Chozo creating Metroids. That isn't relevant to this particular mystery. ChozoBoy (Talk/ ) 18:09, June 7, 2012 (UTC) ::You guys are so intelligent. I feel really... lacking. Don't want to call myself stupid. XD ::!!!! (For the user who wrote the sentence above, please post your signature everytime you edit) The problem is NOT whether the Chozo created the Metroids. If I ever gave the impression that I was putting to doubt the Chozo being the creators of Metroids, I apologize. The real problem I'm trying to tackle is when were Metroids created? Or how long have they existed? Some Chozo lore insinuate the Metroid Prime existed back when Chozo were still living on Tallon IV (several decades before Pirates arrived but after the Leviathan impact). And their prophecy the coming of the worm indicate that the worm (Metroid Prime) came with the poison (phazon). It is true that Phazon Metroids have shown the power to ignore solid matter, but these Metroids are stated as being the result of Metroid eggs infused with Phazon, which were never mentioned or seen on Tallon IV. Pirate data lore never reported an incident in which Metroids had escaped prior to Samus' arrival. The only incident was during the transport of Metroids from the Orpheon to Tallon IV, in which 3 where killed. None escaped alive. This puts into doubt that Metroid Prime was a Metroid brought to the planet by Pirates, and thus enforces the idea that Metroids have existed for a long time (perhaps prior to Samus ever being conceived). Now the manga heavily hints at Metroids being created years after Samus left the Chozo (just prior to Pirates attacking and conquering Zebes). Even more confusing is that in earlier chapters of the same manga, the Chozo were talking about Metroids existing on SR388 during the time Samus was living among them. In my honest opinion, it's hard to believe that Metroids were created so recently as depicted in the manga (either before or after Samus left Zebes). Logically, the Chozo had to have created them LONG ago so that they would be capable of reducing the X population to near non-existent levels by the time Samus first sets foot on SR388 in Metroid 2. Or reduce the X population to near non-existent levels PRIOR to Zero Mission, since the Federation science teams that first discovered SR388 never came across a single X Parasite despite the group staying on the planet long enough to: 1) discover and explore Chozo Ruins 2) encounter Metroids and study them in order to learn how to capture an unspecified amount of specimens 3) Use an untold amount of time to make the scientific theory that Metroids were responsible for the Chozo's disappearance and the low population of animals found in the planet. Add the fact that Metroids would require some time to make a Queen, start laying eggs to increase their population sufficiently enough to spread across SR388 and become the top predator of the entire planet. I feel that some questions, mysteries that surround the Metroid universe will never be clearly answered. Just like in our reality, we cannot hope to have ALL the answers to everything out there. I do believe that Chozoboy's theory on a Metroid having been able to phase through the Chozo Temple Cradle is worthy enough to be added in the Metroid Prime (creature) article. His theory may contain holes, but what Metroid Prime theory doesn't? Finally, we need to rewrite the inconsistancy cause I think some people have misunderstood it. Latinlingo 22:02, June 7, 2012 (UTC) I posted that comment. Hit the wrong button. Sylux X 22:33, June 7, 2012 (UTC) Also, it is a common theory that the Metroid Queen was the first Metroid. It could not be possible that the Metroids created their own ruler, as stated above. So, to narrow this down, when was the Metroid Queen created? But yes, I consider Chozoboy's reason the most logical. Sylux X 22:43, June 7, 2012 (UTC) :It isn't necessarily the first. One of the metroids the chozo created HAPPENED to have the genetic info for becoming a queen. It doesn't matter first or what. :Honestly, I think that nothing that we know could explain the creation of Metroid Prime completely. It'd take plot magic to do it. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 23:21, June 7, 2012 (UTC) :Or officail word from Retro. :Sylux X 00:33, June 8, 2012 (UTC) Are there any scans that make it impossible for the Chozo and the Space Pirates (with their Metroids) to have lived on the planet at the same time? Where does it say how long the Chozo have been gone? 00:36, June 8, 2012 (UTC) :Pirate Data, Phazon Analysis "... Indications point to a meteor of unknown origin impacting approximately 20 years ago, expelling Phazon into the environment...."' --''The Exterminator'' {ADMIN} (talk • • ) 00:42, June 8, 2012 (UTC) :The Pirates never mention on their lore that they met Chozo other than their ghosts. Some Chozo lore in the original Prime game mention them seeing the Pirates on Tallon IV, though I'm not sure if they mean they see them in their visions of the future or if they're seeing them from beyond the realm of the living. Whatever the case might be, Pirates, their Metroids and Chozo were not physically on Tallon IV at the same time at any point. :As for whether or not the Metroid Queen was the first one created, it would have been illogical on the Chozo's part to have released her by herself on the X Parasite-infested SR388. To protect her from aggressive X Parasite retaliation, she would be accompanied by several Metroids (fully grown or not) to guarantee her safety and help establish her hive; this is similar to newborn queen bees. Whether the Queen herself was released fully grown or not is up for debate. Latinlingo 02:57, June 8, 2012 (UTC) We know when the Metroids were created. In/about Samus's youth. That is a fact. The thing we don't know is how old Samus is, post-chapter 2 of the manga. We can get an idea of her biological age by inference, but our inference may be wrong in futuristic settings like this.... and on top of that, Corruption shows her in cryogenic sleep so we can trust it less. To elaborate the chronology: (Chapter 1) Old Bird, Grey Voice, and several Chozo have already observed the X-Parasites. Old Bird and Mother Brain designed the Metroid, but it is not yet living. They visit the neighboring K2-L to ask for Afloraltite, but cannot be given any without revealing the discovery of the dangerous X-Parasites to the Federation. K2-L goes down and the Chozo adopt Samus. (Chapter 2) Samus is 14 and trained. Metroids have made unsatisfactory progess. Samus leaves Zebes shortly after chapter. (Chapter 3-12) We no longer know a time reference, but Samus is a Federation officer. Off-world Chozo are brought into-the-know on X Parasites and shown the first living Metroid. Zebes is attacked. Some Chozo stay (Platinum Chest and Grey Voice) while Old Bird and the others escape with the Metroid. (Chapter 13-16) Year is 20X5, the period of the Zero Mission. Metroids are discovered on SR-388, where the Chozo left them to destroy the X. (Though the X survive, albeit bottlenecked.) (Metroid Prime) According to the Trilogy art booklet, the Leviathans hit Tallon IV and Aether 50 years before 20X5/Zero Mission and Prime is 3 years after 20X5. (20X8?) If the Leviathans in Corruption follow the "every 100 years rule," then we might infer that 47 years have passed between Prime and Corruption. Echoes is stated to be six months prior to Corruption. (The Valhalla attack is four months prior to Corruption.) Perhaps this time was lost in Samus's intergalactic travel/Dark Samus's interplanetary travel? ChozoBoy (Talk/ ) 04:16, June 8, 2012 (UTC) Interesting, but we are starting to walk into uncharted territory. Especially when you add the cryogenic sleep/intergalactic travel timeskip theory. This raises more questions than answers. If cryogenic sleep exists, how many have access to it? Is Samus several centuries old? (I think someone in Nintendo would have mentioned a LONG time ago that she doesn't age normally). If Adam was present prior to Zero Mission, and he's still alive in Other M, does that mean he's also extended his lifespan thanks to cryogenic sleep? Does everyone who travels intergalactically travel unspecified number of years into the future? How many years is the entire Metroid series between Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion??? We're gonna give ourselves more headaches this way. Yes the manga stated this and that, but the manga was released some time ago, and sadly, thanks to both Retro's and recent Sakamoto retcons, I don't think we can consider the manga as 100% canon-accurate (in other words, we cannot completely rely on it). Thus we cannot be sure without question that Metroids were made during Samus' youth. I wanted to point out that, if you carefully read the Metroid Prime Trilogy artbooklet, it is stated that every hundred years seed''s'' are sent out. Its not a single seed that is sent out: this means that an unknow number of Leviathans are sent every 100 years. From what I read in Aether's, Leviathan's, Tallon IV's and Galactic Federation Data's respective articles, Tallon IV and Aether were both hit 50 years prior to Metroid Prime 1's events, meaning they are from the same batch of Leviathans sent out in the most recent century. The last post made by TheExterminator in which Pirates state that the Leviathan hit Tallon IV 20 years ago was retconned in the later versions and the lore now states that its undeterminable when the Leviathan hit and Prime 3 confirms it all happened 50 years ago. Finally, it is commonly accepted as fact that Dark Samus sent out premature Leviathans during Metroid Prime 3 : one of the Pirates scans state that Dark Samus can send out Leviathans when she wants to, meaning she wasn't going to wait for the century-long wait (or whatever time was remaining) to send out the next batch of Leviathans. This means that 45 or so years have not necessarely passed between Metroid Prime 1 and Corruption. When were Metroids created? How long have they been in existence? That cannot be determined and there are several sources contradicting each other. That is the inconsistency that needs to be clarified in the article. Latinlingo 06:36, June 8, 2012 (UTC) :I agree that Dark Samus may have (likely) sent them prematurely. If the game said that as well, then that's that. The "approximately 20 years" is superseded by the omniscience of the art book. Samus's suit may have approximated poorly. Lastly, the manga and the comic before it are both canon to the series. Given the extreme influence they had on the plot, there really is no question. I've posted a list of influences a number of times before. There aren't really any retcons in any new material except the 2003 thing, Zero Mission's restructuring of Metroid, and a few goofy really early things. ChozoBoy (Talk/ ) 07:18, June 8, 2012 (UTC) :As I said, based on recent Sakamoto retcons, like Other M, we cannot consider past media as 100% canon. We can still base several opinions and facts off of the manga and comic, but not completely. I really don't want to enter in a Other M debate, so I will simply present 2 examples from Other M that can be viewed as retcons, thus superseding the manga: The Pirates' independency and Ridley's death. :The Pirates as a whole and Ridley are stated in Other M to be completely useless without a higher intelligence, Mother Brain. Yet the manga, Zero Mission's Chozodia section and the Prime series depict them being independent without her, in particular the manga where they have a history of making strategic attacks on the Federation long before they met Mother Brain. Finally, Ridley's death: Other M is the game that confirms he had never been cloned (a.k.a he never died) before Super Metroid's events, yet the manga and Zero Mission made it both quite clear that he had indeed died against Samus during their first battle on Zebes. If you compare Ridley's defeat seen in Chapter 1 (when the ship/afloraltite explodes and Ridley is simply engulfed in flames) with the battle seen in Chapter 16, we can agree that the latter is much more conclusive than the former: in Chapter 16, Samus does not let Ridley out of her sight nor does she leave the vicinity of the area until his body turns to dust. :In Zero Mission, well he explodes to nothing, which unavoidably points to the fact that he died. In my opinion, this is where Sakamoto failed to shine: since this was supposed to be a retelling of NES Metroid, he could have made Ridley's defeat ambigous instead of him blowing up like in the NES version. Make him fall offscreen like Retro did with Meta Ridley or something. He made the Ensnared Worm boss' defeat ambigous before you realized you had to fight Imago right? Anyways, since Sakamoto didn't, this heavily insinuates that he decided later on that Ridley never died before Super Metroid, thus he retconned Zero Mission and the manga's events, not as a whole but in some aspects. :The reason I brought these two long examples is simply to point out that the manga cannot be considered 100% canon. Thus why we cannot be 100% sure that Metroids were created during Samus' childhood. Latinlingo 08:15, June 8, 2012 (UTC) Is it possible the barrier was erected by the Chozo after they became ghosts? After all you do see images of Chozo ghosts when you enter the impact crater and much of the later Chozo lore refers to Samus as if she's already here (which could be due to their visions but they admit they are close to madness at this point so it's possible that all things considered (including being dead) they're not sure what they're seeing. If the Chozo made the barrier as Ghosts after the Pirates arrived then that would allow a Metroid to enter the crater before the barrier is made as well as allow the pirates to believe the Chozo are extinct Oni Link 10:45, June 8, 2012 (UTC) :Judging from "Cradle", and "Shapeless" and other lore, it would be before. Also, the Pirate Data "Artifact Site" says "Field team reports are in on an aged structure of alien design built on the surface of Tallon IV. Studies show this structure projects a containment field..." indicating it was built before the Pirates got there. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 14:36, June 8, 2012 (UTC) No matter what way you spin it being aged can't really count for much considering the problem is at least fifty years old. Ageing due to weathering and such takes hundreds of years and that's not taking into account alien technology that would likely be better built then anything on this planet. Of course Phazon in the atmosphere could easily erode things at a quicker pace giving no time frame of when it could happen. That or the structure was built long before the meteor hit and was converted to the pourpose of containing the poison Oni Link 15:47, June 8, 2012 (UTC) :You didn't read the entire quoted section. "This structure projects a containment field..." Chronologically, this is the first log they made after entering the planet. This means that A. the Chozo finished before the Space Pirates arrived or B. they finished before they investigated the temple. I somehow doubt a metroid could get in, either case. :In addition, the structure couldn't have built before the catastrophe, it would have gotten smashed by the meteor. It is directly above the crater. Besides, that would only have made it easier for them to make the containment field. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 17:35, June 8, 2012 (UTC) When you were talking about "new" retcons, I didn't realize that you were talking about Other M. I don't think anything has been changed that recently. The telepathy thing is still somewhat an unknown. We don't know how it works, what it does exactly, etc. Recall also that Ridley could not yet lead the Pirates due to his infancy in this game. We never really see the Pirates without a leader up to this point unless they are busy reconstructing one, as an older, more experienced Ridley had led the Pirates prior to Mother Brain's takeover in the manga. Though the Pirates are controlled by MB in this game instead of Mother Brain, you should expect them to be at something of a disadvantage compared to normal Pirates because they are raised away from normal Pirate culture and established science. Sort of like Tarzan raised away from humans or an animal raised in captivity. Non-wild chimps, that is chimps without "wild" parents, aren't taught socially to display that that they are threatened before they attack. In this way, they have only the telepathic commands that MB eventually gives them and not the experience of generations. You are wrong about the writer of the manga not explaining Ridley's revival sufficiently. This media introduces the concept that Ridley has extreme regenerative abilities. ChozoBoy (Talk/ ) 02:52, June 9, 2012 (UTC) He has extreme regenerative abilities? You are talking about his survival from planet K-2L? He states that he had to eat the corpses of the people that died there. Eating, for a complex organism, requires mandibles, jaws, muscles, a working digestive system, and finally a brain to command all of that; those requirements point to the fact that Ridley was not completely mangled/burned/vaporized, and that he had sufficient amount of body mass left intact to eat and regenerate tissue and heal wounds. Quite honestly, I refuse to believe that he had anything less remaining after the K-2L incident, because otherwise it would suggest that a single arm, or small piece of tissue or a single cell from his body is enough to eat by itself and recreate his entire body. He's not the Thing from John Carpenter's movie or an X Parasite. And as I mentioned before, Samus fights Ridley in Chapter 16 and ends the battle conclusively: she stays until she watches his body turn to cinders, making sure nothing remained since she knew at that point that leaving him alive with a sufficient body mass would allow him to eat and regenerate. If someone were to say that his cinders alone or a collection of cells/tissue is all he would need to regenerate, then I would stop that argument right there by saying what would have been the point of cloning Ridley in Other M if he could technically reform himself on his own from a single cell structure? Ridley died in the manga: you can see the progression of his body slowly evaporating/disintegrating with every panel as Samus watches closely until nothing is left of him. This goes without mentioning the game Zero Mission's portrayal of his explosion... We never really see the Pirates without a leader up to this point unless they are busy reconstructing one. The Pirates in the Space Pirate Mothership and Chozodia ruins were seemingly well independent without Ridley or Mother Brain being present anymore: they still excavated the temple, stole item upgrades, operated technology onboard the ship, etc. They weren't busy reconstructing a leader at that point either, since they only started Ridley's, Kraid's and Mother Brain's revivals after the end of Zero Mission. I hope no one considers Ridley Robot to be the Pirates' attempt at reconstructing a leader, because that machinery was built by Ridley himself as a weapon (an incomplete one at that), nothing more. If we throw the Prime series into the equation, specifically Prime 2, they are very much capable of living their daily pirate lives without thinking of a supreme leader to lead them, let alone reconstruct a leader. As for the Other M Pirates being at a disadvantage, they may have been indeed. Whether they were cloned from tissue on Samus' suit or were captured by the Federation and had their sentience/free will removed from their brains, its plausible to imagine they were lost without MB's control. However, despite all of this discussion we have built up, we are starting to deviate a tiny bit from the real matter at hand: there are different sources that offer different lengths of time on how long Metroids have existed in the series. This needs to be brought up on the article in some form. 10:16, June 9, 2012 (UTC) :Just to work on those points mentioned there, the end of Zero Mission still takes place during the Zero Mission. The Space Pirates most likely hard orders from Ridley to guard the ship so that's what they did. Other M hardly implies that as soon as Pirates have no strong leader they just fall apart instantly. And in Metroid prime 2 there are still plenty of references to High Command sufficient enough that the Pirates know why they are there and are following orders. Everything about the Pirates actions in Other M supports the info provided in the Manga where it depicts the Pirates as intelligent but feral creatures. Something that Emerald Chest mocks Ridley about if I recall correctly. They need a strong leader to function efficiently, I remember at one point when Ridley loses contact with Mother Brain and Emerald chest during the Federation invasion he says something along the lines of "Someone just give me some orders". All that implies that Ridley was a competent enough leader to make the Space Pirates a galactic threat but it wasn't until they met Mother Brain that they were dangerous enough to cause an all out war. Oni Link 10:52, June 9, 2012 (UTC)